In the Bullshit Department, a businessman can’t hold a candle to a clergyman. ‘Cause I gotta tell you the truth, folks. When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there’s an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ’til the end of time!

But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He’s all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can’t handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit!

But I want you to know something, this is sincere, I want you to know, when it comes to believing in God, I really tried. I really, really tried. I tried to believe that there is a God, who created each of us in His own image and likeness, loves us very much, and keeps a close eye on things. I really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize, something is fucked up.

Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the resume of a Supreme Being. This is the kind of shit you’d expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently-run universe, this guy would’ve been out on his all-powerful ass a long time ago. And by the way, I say “this guy”, because I firmly believe, looking at these results, that if there is a God, it has to be a man.

No woman could or would ever fuck things up like this. So, if there is a God, I think most reasonable people might agree that he’s at least incompetent, and maybe, just maybe, doesn’t give a shit. Doesn’t give a shit, which I admire in a person, and which would explain a lot of these bad results.

So rather than be just another mindless religious robot, mindlessly and aimlessly and blindly believing that all of this is in the hands of some spooky incompetent father figure who doesn’t give a shit, I decided to look around for something else to worship. Something I could really count on.

And immediately, I thought of the sun. Happened like that. Overnight I became a sun-worshipper. Well, not overnight, you can’t see the sun at night. But first thing the next morning, I became a sun-worshipper. Several reasons. First of all, I can see the sun, okay? Unlike some other gods I could mention, I can actually see the sun. I’m big on that. If I can see something, I don’t know, it kind of helps the credibility along, you know? So everyday I can see the sun, as it gives me everything I need; heat, light, food, flowers in the park, reflections on the lake, an occasional skin cancer, but hey. At least there are no crucifixions, and we’re not setting people on fire simply because they don’t agree with us.

Sun worship is fairly simple. There’s no mystery, no miracles, no pageantry, no one asks for money, there are no songs to learn, and we don’t have a special building where we all gather once a week to compare clothing. And the best thing about the sun, it never tells me I’m unworthy. Doesn’t tell me I’m a bad person who needs to be saved. Hasn’t said an unkind word. Treats me fine. So, I worship the sun. But, I don’t pray to the sun. Know why? I wouldn’t presume on our friendship. It’s not polite.

I’ve often thought people treat God rather rudely, don’t you? Asking trillions and trillions of prayers every day. Asking and pleading and begging for favors. Do this, gimme that, I need a new car, I want a better job. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday His day off. It’s not nice. And it’s no way to treat a friend.

But people do pray, and they pray for a lot of different things, you know, your sister needs an operation on her crotch, your brother was arrested for defecating in a mall. But most of all, you’d really like to fuck that hot little redhead down at the convenience store. You know, the one with the eyepatch and the clubfoot? Can you pray for that? I think you’d have to. And I say, fine. Pray for anything you want. Pray for anything, but what about the Divine Plan?

Remember that? The Divine Plan. Long time ago, God made a Divine Plan. Gave it a lot of thought, decided it was a good plan, put it into practice. And for billions and billions of years, the Divine Plan has been doing just fine. Now, you come along, and pray for something. Well suppose the thing you want isn’t in God’s Divine Plan? What do you want Him to do? Change His plan? Just for you? Doesn’t it seem a little arrogant? It’s a Divine Plan. What’s the use of being God if every run-down shmuck with a two-dollar prayerbook can come along and fuck up Your Plan?

And here’s something else, another problem you might have: Suppose your prayers aren’t answered. What do you say? “Well, it’s God’s will.” “Thy Will Be Done.” Fine, but if it’s God’s will, and He’s going to do what He wants to anyway, why the fuck bother praying in the first place? Seems like a big waste of time to me! Couldn’t you just skip the praying part and go right to His Will? It’s all very confusing.

So to get around a lot of this, I decided to worship the sun. But, as I said, I don’t pray to the sun. You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Two reasons: First of all, I think he’s a good actor, okay? To me, that counts. Second, he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn’t fuck around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that God was having trouble with.

For years I asked God to do something about my noisy neighbor with the barking dog, Joe Pesci straightened that cocksucker out with one visit. It’s amazing what you can accomplish with a simple baseball bat.

So I’ve been praying to Joe for about a year now. And I noticed something. I noticed that all the prayers I used to offer to God, and all the prayers I now offer to Joe Pesci, are being answered at about the same 50% rate. Half the time I get what I want, half the time I don’t. Same as God, 50-50. Same as the four-leaf clover and the horseshoe, the wishing well and the rabbit’s foot, same as the Mojo Man, same as the Voodoo Lady who tells you your fortune by squeezing the goat’s testicles, it’s all the same: 50-50. So just pick your superstition, sit back, make a wish, and enjoy yourself.

And for those of you who look to The Bible for moral lessons and literary qualities, I might suggest a couple of other stories for you. You might want to look at the Three Little Pigs, that’s a good one. Has a nice happy ending, I’m sure you’ll like that. Then there’s Little Red Riding Hood, although it does have that X-rated part where the Big Bad Wolf actually eats the grandmother. Which I didn’t care for, by the way.

And finally, I’ve always drawn a great deal of moral comfort from Humpty Dumpty. The part I like the best? “All the king’s horses and all the king’s men couldn’t put Humpty Dumpty back together again.” That’s because there is no Humpty Dumpty, and there is no God. None, not one, no God, never was. In fact, I’m gonna put it this way. If there is a God, may he strike this audience dead! See? Nothing happened. Nothing happened? Everybody’s okay? All right, tell you what, I’ll raise the stakes a little bit. If there is a God, may he strike me dead. See? Nothing happened, oh, wait, I’ve got a little cramp in my leg. And my balls hurt. Plus, I’m blind. I’m blind, oh, now I’m okay again, must have been Joe Pesci, huh? God Bless Joe Pesci. Thank you all very much. Joe Bless You!

Sebagai pembuka, saya mengutip statemen seorang teman dari milis yahoo groups…

“Bukalah matamu hai bangsa indonesia.. salah satu hal penghambat kemajuan bangsa ini sebenarnya adalah ketololan kita mempercayai adanya tuhan dan memperlakukan ajarannya secara `overacting` dan fanatik. Dan diindonesia ketololan ini ditambah lagi oleh pemimpin rakus dan licik yg punya hobi menggalang massa atas nama agama. terutama agama islam, sebuah ajaran paling kolot dan tolol dibumi ini. pesantren dan kelompok2 pengajian dibuat untuk mem`brainwash` generasi muda agar lebih mudah dikontrol dan sekaligus agar dapat digerakan sebagai kekuatan massa. lihat saja pendukung abdurahman wahid yg menyatakan diri mereka sebagai pasukan berani mati dan berteriak2 `alahuakbarbismilahbismintul` sambil mengacungkan parang seperti preman pasar. atau front pembela islam yg mengobrak-abrik toko2/tempat hiburan yg menjual barang2 yg diharamkan oleh `tuhan` mereka. benar2 manusia biadab. Agama islam adalah racun nomor satu dikehidupan diindonesia ini (kedua adalah budaya jawa) dan kita tidak akan maju dan berkembang bila hal ini dibiarkan. science dan technology adalah hal yg lebih realistis untuk dijadikan patokan/pedoman. tidak heran bila bangsa kita ini tertinggal jauh dalam hal itu. kita terlalu sibuk ketakutan dan menyembah langit yg kosong diatas.

Bukalah matamu bangsa indonesia. tinggalkan agama dan tuhan. Fuck muhamad !! fuck jesus !! fuck all y`all religious hipocrites. Science and technology is the way of the future!!!”

Wups..jangan terburu-buru mengutuk yang punya statemen diatas dengan membabi buta dulu….hehe.. Mari bahas terlebih dahulu dengan membebaskan pemikiran kita …siapa tahu mungkin ada benernya…(cuma mungkin loh…).

Untuk membahasnya saya merujuk pemikiran MARX karena sangat representatif. (sekali lagi..jangan terburu buru menjudge bahwa orang ini sang atheist. Lihat logika-nya..jangan person-nya.. )

Marx pernah mengatakan dalam karyanya Toward the Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right, yang ditulisnya pada tahun 1844, bahawa “agama itu adalah candu rakyat”. Pendapat yang demikian dipercayai lahir dari pengalaman Marx yang melihat pemimpin dan institusi agama Kristian di Eropah sebagai sebahagian daripada oligarki yang menindas rakyat.

Pemimpin agama itu bukan saja merupakan penyokong kepada para penguasa, tetapi juga menguasai pemikiran rakyat supaya pasrah terhadap keadaan mereka yang tertindas, dan mempercayai bahawa mereka akan memperoleh kemakmuran selepas kematian berasaskan janji bahawa kebahagian itu ada di syurga.

Dalam keadaan demikian, rakyat menjadi pasif dan tidak mahu mengubah keadaan mereka yang buruk itu dengan berjuang untuk menciptakan nasib yang baik dengan kekuatan mereka sendiri.

Itulah sebabnya Marx menganggap agama sebagai candu rakyat.

Dengan perkataan lain, Marx melihat pemimpin agama sebagai sebahagian daripada pihak penguasa atau pemerintah yang menindas rakyat. Dan dalam keadaan hidup tertindas itu, agama mengajar mereka supaya pasrah kerana dikatakan kebahagian sebenarnya ada di dunia lain, dan bukan di dunia yang nyata ini.

Jika demikian, bukankah agama itu telah menjadi candu rakyat?

Komaruddin Hidayat, dari Yayasan Paramadina, melalui tulisannya “Beragama Dikala Duka” (Kompas, 11/2/95) mengemukakan bahwa ketika Marx berbicara tentang Tuhan dan Agama, tidaklah berangkat dari postulat-postulat teologi, melainkan dengan mengamati situasi konkrit manusia, yang secara psikologis mereka tertindas oleh situasi sosial dan politik yang opresif.

Marx yang merasa terpanggil untuk membela mereka yang tertindas secara politis dan ekonomis, ketika lembaga dan penguasa agama hanya menawarkan solusi berupa hiburan semu, yaitu janji-janji surga di seberang derita dan kematian. Bahkan Marx lebih kesal lagi, ketika melihat agama dengan para tokohnya telah berkolusi dengan penguasa yang tiran, yang menindas dan membodohi rakyat.

Yang menjadi sasaran pokok dari kritik Marx bukanlah hakikat Tuhan serta; ajaran metafisika agama, melainkan praktek keberagamaan yang bersikap eskaptis, yaitu menjadikan agama sebagai tempat pelarian dari pergulatan sosial yang memerlukan penyelesaian konkrit, bukannya tawaran surgawi di seberang kematian. Keberagamaan semacam ini, bagi pemikir semacam Marx tak ubahnya sebagai opium yang menghilangkan derita sementara(palliatif), karena akar penyebabnya tidak tersentuh sama sekali.

Sekiranya tokoh-tokoh agama pada waktu itu, tidak menjadikan agama sebagai tempat pelarian dari pergulatan sosial yang memerlukan penyelesaian konkrit bukan tawaran surgawi di seberang kematian, bukan berkolusi dengan penguasa yang tiran, tentu tak akan muncul ucapan yang demikian dari Marx, persoalannya akan menjadi lain.

Kebebasan harus diperjuangkan, direbut. Tidak akan diperoleh dengan mengharap belas kasihan dari kelas yang menindas.

Analognya; bila rakyat yang tertindas (Proletar) diijinkan atau diberi kebebasan untuk berpikir bebas akan nasibnya sendiri, tentu mereka akan kritis dan memerangi ketidak adilan. Agar rakyat terhibur dan punya impian irasional maka agama di tampilkan.

Nah alasan marx tentang agama adalah racun sebenarnya juga terjadi pada kita, saat ini..detik ini..yaitu penindasan ….

]]> http://opinionb.wordpress.com/2009/11/22/religulous/ Sun, 22 Nov 2009 12:26:35 +0000 MiguelBarrio http://opinionb.wordpress.com/2009/11/22/religulous/ http://integrallifeupdates.wordpress.com/2009/11/18/religulous-the-baby-and-the-bathwater/ Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:39:14 +0000 integrallifeupdates http://integrallifeupdates.wordpress.com/2009/11/18/religulous-the-baby-and-the-bathwater/

Religulous: The Baby and the Bathwater

Is Bill Maher too smart for God?  Or not smart enough?  Listen and find out!

Duration: 1 hr 17 min

Bill Maher, host of the HBO talk show Real Time With Bill Maher, often asks his guests: “How can someone as smart as yourself actually believe in this religious stuff?”  It’s fair question, one that a great many people ask themselves every day, and forms the premise of Maher’s recent comedy/documentary Religulous.

To many, religion seems quaint, anachronistic, even childish in today’s modern and post-modern world.  To others, it is downright dangerous—particularly when religious fundamentalism begins to infect our modern-day political, academic, and scientific systems.  Or worse, when it gains access to advanced technologies and devastating weaponry.

But there is something crucial missing from Bill Maher’s criticism of religion, which would prompt us to ask him, “How can someone as smart as yourself not realize that there is so much more to religion than just fairy tales?  If we take a truly intelligent look at religion, wouldn’t we find something we can salvage from these great and enduring traditions?”

Here’s the irony: by virtue of their critiques against religious fundamentalism, Maher and other rational atheists are demonstrating capacities that can actually be more spiritual than the people and beliefs they are criticizing, in the sense that their rational world-views are more developed than the mythic world-views held by the fundamentalists.  And it is true that we need to keep a cautious eye on these mythic, absolutistic, “us vs. them” expressions of religion, which have indeed been (and continue to be) some of the greatest sources of pain and suffering in history—and to this end, Religulous and other contemporary atheists are playing an important role in the overall cultural conversation.

But when we face religious fundamentalism with scientific fundamentalism and dismiss religion altogether, we are also dismissing history’s greatest source of liberation, compassion, and transcendence—the powerfully transformative practices and interpretations of spiritual reality that form the esoteric core of all the world’s religious traditions, east and west.

Listen as Ken and David discuss what Bill Maher (and the rest of the “New Atheist” crowd) are missing in this otherwise provocative and entertaining film.

Listen now.

Pessoal, vi uma parte de um documentário bem legal. Meio que abalou minhas bases. Chama-se Religolous. Basicamente, é um comediante  chamado Bill Maher que viajou o planeta em busca de respostas para várias questões religiosas para a seguinte pergunta: religião é necessária para o homem?

cartaz do filme

Aqui está o trailler do documentário:

Ele, obviamente, é uma pessoa no mínimo, anti-religião, e convicta, no meu ponto de vista. Mas, ele se declara libertário e é, no meu ponto de vista novamente, um crítico ferrenho do atual american way of life applied to the world (acabei de inventar o termo, mas tem a ver com o modus operandi contemporânea dos EUA tanto para dentro, quanto para fora). No fim do filme, ele faz algumas considerações:

1. primeiramente ele pede para os racionais e anti religião para “saírem do armário” e terem voz e dizerem o que realmente pensam sobre as religiões.
2. pede para que todos os religiosos, inclusive os moderados, para que “olhem no espelho” e se auto critiquem ao analisar o relacionamento entre religião e os conflitos atuais.
3. faz uma comparação: você seria adepto à um clube que promove todos os tipos de preconceito: misogenia, racismo, homofobia, etc.; promove violência em nome de seus deuses, ignorância e intolerância? Você, no mínimo, saíria desse clube em protesto. Caso não, seria como uma mulher de malandro: conivente.
4. por fim, ele afirma que não são profecias divinas que trarão o fim do mundo, mas sim a religião.

Vejam:

Baita tapa na cara. Eu, como católico semi-praticante ou quase-”morno” na gíria interna da religião, fiquei balançado… só com ese finzinho do filme. Me perguntei bastante hoje sobre isso. E cheguei nas conclusões:

1. por incrível que não pareça, sou brasileiro. Acomodado. Entretanto sei das atrocidades que minha religião já fez. Já foi omissa (fala Pio XII), massacrou indígenas (tanto culturamente, socialmente e fisicamente), é contra a camisinha, rígida e ignorante em alguns aspectos. Mas, algumas correntes e momentos históricos são importantes como na luta contra a ditadura, a Teoria da Libertação, o trabalho de algumas pastorais, o trabalho do papa João Paulo II. Lembrando que nada disso redime o que já ocorreu, inclusive os vários pedidos de desculpas.
2. Olha, eu já li um pouco bastante sobre religiões porque sempre me fez falta em ter quem acreditar. Não gosto da mistura de ignorância com religião, abitolamento… não deve-se confundir. Religião é base para a vida, para religar-se com um mundo superior, e suas diretrizes devem servir para o bom convívio, a paz e um mundo melhor. E não tudo isso que já sabemos.
3. E por fim, não acho inteligente relegar todo o legado que as religiões nos deram para a merda. Como tudo no universo e usando um chavão, tudo tem seus prós e contras. Não acredito que a ignorância a ponto de se achar que toda religião e todo relacionamento com ela leva à ignorância é generalizar demais. Veja o nosso país: (lá vai mais um clichê) veja a miscigenação religiosa… existe uma certa tolerância saudável na terra brasilis para todas. Nunca nos importamos muito com a religião do nossos governantes, apesar de sermos um país tradicionalmente católico.
4. Agora, por fim mesmo, deveria haver uma conferência ou enocntro mundial para a discussão de termos religiosos com a política. Pois aonde há a mistura dos dois, nucna sai boa coisa.

Agora deixo para vocês a auto crítica e a análise. E, caso queiram, utilizem o blog como quiser para discutirmos religião da melhor forma possível e mostrar que isso é humanamente realizável.

Eu sugiro para ler:

O livro das religiões, livro velho, mas excelente. E um outro sobre uma competição de religiões num reino distante para eleição da nova religião oficial do mesmo reino… poxa… sou louco para saber que livro é esse!

Bons uivos! Aleluia!

PZ Myers worries about the potential of the creationist movement voting praying Sarah Palin back into high office in spite of because of her disdain for evolution.

Unfortunately, about half the American electorate will think what she wrote is just ducky. Those words won’t dissuade very many voters at all, so don’t make the mistake of thinking this revelation will somehow cripple her campaign to become president of the US.

The statistics relating to American belief in creationism are total crap.  Nowhere close to ‘about half’.  PZ, please don’t continue to spread this malignant creationist meme.  The actual population of true flat earthers is ten percent….tops.  Much more numerous than WMD’s in Iraq, but not so far from zero as to pose a serious threat.

I understand how one might be tempted to believe that half the US population rejects Darwinism.  Religious nutjobs infest much of our government (Godless PTSD victims e.g.) and control big swaths of our media.  The only political fear of religious radicalism on the wane is their possible manipulation of the vote, not the voters.

If manipulation of the voters really worked, we’d already see rioting in the streets over the various other delusional fantasies spit out daily by Fox News et.al. etc.   Don’t get your Obama birther rally attendance figures from Fox News, and don’t get your statistics on evolution denial from Answers in Genesis.

When I look around, I see a whole lot more gay people than religious freaks, and I surmise that the population of gays is bigger than the population of actual evolution deniers.  I fear neither though I do loathe the latter.

Enjoy.

For God’s sake, could Bryan Appleyard be any more of a creationist suck -up?

Darwin divided and still divides the western world. It’s not just a division between scientists and fundamentalists. Science itself is divided.

That’s one of many intellectual Palinisms that infest his piece.  From this misbegotten foundation springs an ongoing cornucopia of standard creationist claptrap and concern trolling.  That was this January.  Now he’s back to take a slap at PZ Myers.

Enjoy.

I don’t have HBO, but my love for Bill Maher has grown exponentially in the past 2+ years with the advent of podcasts.  His HBO show, New Rules, gets released for free in audio version about a few days after it airs (iTunes link).  He’s right alongside Keith Olbermann & Rachel Maddow (both from MSNBC), George Hrab’s Geologic Podcast (not about geology), and Kevin Smith & Scott Mosier’s SModcast in my “must listen once they get downloaded” queue.

OK, enough podcast talk… I also love what Bill Maher did last year with his comedy / documentary Religulous.  It was more comedy than an actual documentary for me, and it was quite entertaining from a non-believers point of view.  While I don’t think it’ll change (m)any minds, I still enjoyed it quite well.

When Bill gets time off from his show, sometimes he hits the road.  When I found out about his Eugene date, I already had tickets to go see Cincinnati band Over the Rhine up at Portland’s Doug Fir Lounge.  I was torn.  I mean, I’ve seen Over the Rhine fifty times (no lie), but I really love them.  Well, my wife had a Eugene art community show conflict the same night as OTR; so I sold our tickets and opted for Maher instead (sorry, Karin & Linford, we’ll catch you next year).

There was no opener, and Bill Maher hit the stage right around 8:15 and did a solid hour and a half of his crude but poignant comedy.  He touched on many topics and comedic bits from New Rules… the economy, politics, religion, and food culture in America.

Some of my favorite bits were on religion, specifically the Mormontology bit, the Muslim Dior fashion show, and the Pope’s Facebook relationship status (“it’s complicated”).

Some of my favorite lines:

“Crocs – for people who find flip flops a little too dressy.”

“Those liberals, always wanting to get across the river in one piece.” (sarcastic re: the politics of spend, i.e.- wanting to build crazy things like infrastructure)

“The Republicans have looked to the future for their political leadership and found… radio.”

“Ronald McDonald has killed a lot more people than Osama Bin Laden.”

I don’t agree with all of Bill’s stances, specifically some of his thoughts on medicine.  I don’t think he’s being all too scientific in his vocal stance against vaccines, for example.  However, he really didn’t bring those topics up last night.

Overall, I think Bill Maher’s stand-up is a lot like George Carlin – many of the same topics – crude, cutting, and powerful humor.

The Appropriate Linkage:

• Bill Maher’s Official Site
• HBO’s New Rules
  
• Bill Maher on MySpace
• Bill Maher on Facebook
  
•  The Hult Center

~Dan – np: A Perfect Circle – Mer De Noms

The movie that inspired the name of this very website. Some might say its an outright rip off even. Never mind. Bill Maher, the American talk show host and comedian, wrote and starred in this comedy/documentary which probes organised religion and associated beliefs, in a satirical manner of course. Memorable parts of the film include an interview with Pastor John Wescott whose aim is to ‘help people overcome’ homosexuality, interview with Jose Miranda who has his cult following as he claims to be the second coming of the Jesus, and also when Bill visits the ‘Holy Land Experience’, a Christian theme park in Orlando, Florida.

Maher, an outspoken atheist himself, doesn’t give religion any slack in this film. Perfect.

If you have trouble finding it, here’s a hint, ’surf the channel’.

The real test of friendship is: Can you literally do nothing with the other person? Can you enjoy together those moments of life that are utterly simple? They are the moments that people look back on at the end of life and number as their most sacred experiences.

~ Eugene Kennedy

We went to the usual spot, the Athenian Restaurant on Coliseum, because he likes to flirt with the waitress. It’s sort of embarrassing. But I was spared that particular show on this sunny but brisk Veterans Day morning; much to his dismay, she wasn’t scheduled to come in until noon.

His name is Joe. I met him back during my days as a southern gospel music director at a local AM station. A long-haul semi-truck driver who liked to swing by when he was home and chat up the announcers, he once played a part in organizing an event in our parking lot featuring the local truck stop’s chapel-on-wheels, the kind Bill Maher visits toward the beginning of Religulous. He’s a lot like those guys – outspoken about his Christian faith and willing to lay hands upon and send prayers heavenward on behalf on anyone in need of a spiritual touch.

When we changed formats, dumping the four-part harmony of the Cathedrals in favor of the more saccharine and advertiser-friendly Matt Redman, he cut his unkempt hair off, ditched the cowboy hat, grew a goatee, and hung around. And even after I dumped most of what I thought was faith at the time and moved on to other notions of God that conflicted with his own, he didn’t abandon me.

He helps me change my brakes when they start squealing. Recently, looking for more of a challenge, we went all out and tore my 2001 Pontiac Montana apart and changed the head gaskets. I mostly fetched sockets, paced around the garage, smoked lots of cigarettes, and lost shit. But he is a patient soul and never once during the two week ordeal complained that I was getting on his nerves, although I’m sure I did. He just kept humming along to the oldies he piped in on XM and ratcheting away. He’s retired now so we get together more and eat out a lot.

He’s also a veteran. I knew this, of course. I’ve spent many mornings sitting at his side at the VA hospital, driving him home after some invasive procedure. I’ve heard bits and pieces of stories and seen a picture or two from his days in the service, but I never held a cohesive, panoramic image of his years in the military in my head. Until this morning. Over omelets, biscuits and gravy, cup after cup of coffee, and eggs sunny side up – just the way he likes them – he told me everything. Well, as much as a former spy can reveal . . .

At the ripe old age of 19, on the advice of a recruiter who promised him the moon, Joe left a job manufacturing rear axles for trucks at International Harvester and enlisted in the USAF. He had been told there were opportunities to work on jet engines, but when, in 1959, he reported for basic training at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas, they told him he had two options: slinging hash or spying. Although he was (and still is) a fine cook, he chose instead to become a Morse Intercept Operator with the United States Air Force Security Service. After further training in Morse code at Keesler AFB in Biloxi, Mississippi, he hopped a plane headed to Karamürsel Air Station in Turkey, where, as a member of TUSLOG Detachment 3, he eavesdropped on the Russians and heard firsthand the reports of the downing of Gary Powers’ U-2 aircraft. He also developed a love for bowling, playing in base and local tournaments and amassing numerous trophies. He once rolled fourteen strikes in a row, spanning two games, and recorded a personal best score of 299, one pin shy of perfect. He had only planned on staying in the military long enough to complete a tour and then return home, but he soon found himself hooked, enjoying the opportunity to travel and see parts of the world he’d only read about.

After eighteen months in Turkey, he was transferred to the 6987^th Security Squadron at the Shu Lin Kou Air Station in Taipei, Taiwan, where he first heard of the assassination of President John Kennedy from a G.I. who operated the local American radio station and had been monitoring news reports for rebroadcast. Joe claims he knows who shot Kennedy, but he won’t tell me. Says he’d have to kill me. I can live with that. One of his more interesting duties during this stint of his service was monitoring the monthly flights of C-47 Gooney Bird aircraft, under the command of Chaing Kai-shek and the Kuomintang, over communist China. These flights were a violation of controlled air space, something done “just to piss off the Commies,” and the chatter provided loads of entertainment.

With more advanced methods of communications available and becoming frequently utilized by countries the U.S. military were monitoring during the Cold War, Joe acquired further training credentials as a Non Morse Intercept Operator at Goodfellow AFB in San Angelo, Texas, and in October of 1964, deployed as part of the 6913^th R.S.M. stationed in Bremerhaven, Germany. He continued to achieve success in myriad bowling competitions, played flag football, and served as assistant coach for the softball team, traveling all over Europe for tournaments. It was while in Germany that the travel bug hit hard. He and his friends took boat excursions up and down the Rhine River, stopping to look at castles along the way. He visited Copenhagen and Hamburg and started a love affair with German ale. Then, in March of 1967, after a number of older cars has been driven to death, restored in his spare time, and then sold, Joe forked over $3500 for a 1967 Mercedes Benz 200D, and the fun really started. He traveled to Amsterdam during tulip season, taking a few thousand photos he later developed into slides, ran at windmills with an aplomb rivaling that of Don Quixote, attended wine festivals, and ate Wimpy-style hamburgers, washing them down with cases of beer. By the time he left Germany, late in 1967, for his next assignment with the 6931^st Security Group operating out of the Iraklion Air Station on the island of Crete, his Mercedes had rolled over 25,000 miles worth of European roadways. It was while in Crete that he fell hard for tsipouro, a Greek cousin of Turkish raki, and an especially strong drink served best with freshly-shelled almonds dipped in honey.

As 1969 wound down, he found himself back at Goodfellow as an instructor. But he missed being overseas, so after another training stint, this time at Fort Mead where he specialized in decoding burst transmissions, he made his way to “where the heel meets the boot,” Brindisi, Italy, and the San Vito dei Normanni Air Station, where he tinkered in the “elephant cage,” the AN/FLR-9 antenna array that took Cold War eavesdropping to an entirely new, 360-degree level of sophistication. Despite all the geekiness such tinkering entailed, he found time to blend with the locals, enjoying the occasional afternoon siesta and more than one man’s share of Italian night life.

Joe eventually returned stateside in December of 1974 and spent the rest of his military career as an instructor, both at Goodfellow and at the Naval Technical Training Center Corry Station near Pensacola, Florida, where he fed his new love for NASCAR racing by spending his spare time at the Five Flags Speedway. Joe retired in 1979 having achieved the rank of E-6 Technical Sergeant.

You may be wondering how Joe managed to miss a tour in Vietnam. He tells me he tried. He begged them to just let him fly over so he could earn the points necessary for promotion. But it was a no-go; the equipment he worked with was never used in Vietnam. Too cumbersome. And his training never made a combat deployment practical. So he traveled. Soaked up the societies in which he found himself. He never had any illicit romantic entanglements. Never got in a fight. Despite all the alcohol he consumed during his free time, while on duty he was the model of contentment, consistency and performance. He listened, and listened well.

As did I while he shared his story of military service. A tale of interesting work and wild recreation and mysterious locales I will never see firsthand. But I share his memories as he shares them with me.

In a recent post, I bemoaned the fact that so much of what social media offers is generally lacking in substance. How what happens on Facebook or Twitter just doesn’t compare to the connection felt between honest-to-God, face-to-face friends. My friendship with Joe is of the sort that has raised the bar of comparison. In him I have found a friend with whom I can simply do nothing. We can sit and talk for hours and accomplish absolutely nothing, a nothing which is everything. And, on this Veterans Day, I am grateful for all that he means to me . . .

RITUAL SHOLAT

Sholat lima waktu adalah adopsi dari ritual Sabeanisme (Shabi’in) pra- Islam:
Kaum Sabean memiliki LIMA waktu solat mirip dgn kelima solat Muslim. Ada yg mengatakan mereka memiliki 7 solat, lima yg mirip dgn waktu solat Muslim [yi, isa, subuh, lohor, azan, magrib; yg ke-6 adalah tengah malam, dan ke-7 adalah sebelum siang tengah hari]. Adalah praktek utk berdoa bagi orang mati tanpa berlutut atau membungkukkan lutut.
Mereka juga berpuasa selama satu bulan atau 30 hari; mereka mulai puasa mereka pada saat sebelum malam berakhir dan melanjutkannya sampai matahari terbenam. Ada aliran2 yg berpuasa selama bulan Ramadan, menghadap Ka’bah saat berdoa, memuja Mekah, dan berhijrah/naik haji ke Mekah. Mereka menganggap mayat, darah dan daging babi sbg najis. Mereka melarang perkawinan dgn alasan sama Muslim melarang perkawinan. (Muhammad Shukri al-Alusi, Bulugh al-’Arab fi Ahwal al-’Arab, pp. 121-122)

Perhatikan, hampir semua ritual yang dijalankan oleh kaum Sabean sama dan diadopsi oleh Islam! Bahkan, Allah memerintahkan muslim meniru mereka. Hai orang-orang yang beriman, diwajibkan atas kamu berpuasa sebagaimana diwajibkan atas orang-orang sebelum kamu agar kamu bertakwa (surat al-Baqarah 2:183)

IBADAH HAJI

Sesungguhnya Safa dan Marwah adalah sebahagian dari syi`ar Allah.Maka barang siapa yang beribadah haji ke Baitullah atau ber-`umrah, maka tidak ada dosa baginya mengerjakan sai antara keduanya. Dan barang siapa yang mengerjakan suatu kebajikan dengan kerelaan hati, maka sesungguhnya Allah Maha Mensyukuri kebaikan lagi Maha Mengetahui (Surah al-Baqarah 2:158)

Lihat komentar mufasir Quran Yusuf Ali tentang apa Safa dan Marwa itu:

“The virtue of patient perseverance in faith leads to the mention of two symbolic monuments of that virtue. These are two little hills of Safa and Marwa, now absorbed in the city of Mecca and close to the well of Zam-zam. Here, according to tradition, the lady Hajar, the mother of the infant Isma’il, prayed for water in the parched desert, and in her eager quest round these hills, she found her prayer answered and saw the Zam-zam spring. Unfortunately, the Pagan Arabs had placed a male and female idol here, and their gross superstitious rites caused offense to the early Muslims. They felt some hesitation in going round these places during the Pilgrimage. As a matter of fact they should have known that the Ka’ba (the House of God) had
been itself defiled with idols, and was sanctified again by the purity of Muhammad’s life and teaching. The lesson is that the most sacred things may be turned to the basest uses; that we are not therefore necessarily to ban a thing misused; that if our intentions and life are pure, God will recognize them even if the world cast stones at us because of some evil associations which they join with what we do, or with the people we associate with, or with the places which claim our reverence.” (Ali, The Holy Qur’an: Translation and Commentary [Lahore, 1934 and 1937], p. 62, fn. 160)

Jadi, Safa dan Marwa dalam surat al-Baqarah tersebut adalah tempat dimana berhala-berhala ditempatkan dan ritual Arab purba biasa dilaksanakan!

catatan:  tidak bermaksud menjelekan agama tertentu, hanya sebagai bahan pemikiran.

Recent am urmarit, si inca de doua ori, documentarul lui Bill Maher, Religulous. Maher porneste de la perspectiva unui agnostic (spre deosebire de un ateu, care spune “Dumnezeu nu exista”, un agnostic pretinde ca e mai intelept si raspunde “Nu stiu daca exista”) cautand sa demonstreze ca religia a adus mai mult daune si violenta in lume decat se pretinde, ca aparenta masca a pacifismului e de fapt o fatarnicie perversa. E un documentar care fie te ofenseaza, fie iti starneste hohote de ras sau cum spunea criticul Linda Cook, uneori si una si alta.

Ce mi-a placut

1. Recunosc e un documentar indraznet si comic. Nu am mai auzit de Bill Maher pana acum asa ca am citit si eu ceva despre el. Pregateste-te pentru intrebari provocatoare, situatii absurde si oameni comici, juxtapozitii (in special cu acele clipuri inserate) si prostie din plin.

2. Pe undeva ma regasesc in trecutul lui… am simtit si eu plictiseala unei dimineti de duminica la serviciul religios, intrebari de copil gen “Da’ de ce eu sunt diferit de altii?” si “De ce sunt atatea religii” sau pacturi la masa tratativelor cu Dumnezeu, “Daca imi faci si imi dregi…atunci eu…”. Mda…oricine a fost crescut de parinti religiosi a detonat dece-urile sub cupola craniului sau…Am ras de mai multe ori de ridicolul unor situatii si de prostia unora din invitati.

Ce obiectii am

1. Sincer nu ma pot astepta prea mult de la un actor de comedie, si tratez documentarul ca pe un stand up comedy. Pe de alta parte e de notorietate antipatia lui Maher pentru religie. Ce imi place la el e ca nu e ateu, Maher nu pretinde ca stie raspunsul, chiar admite existenta lui Dumnezeu. Religia lui e indoiala. Ii dau dreptate de multe ori in ce priveste atitudinea fata de ceea ce au facut oamenii din religie. Pe de alta parte se autodeclara un apostol al indoielii. Un lucru frapant in documentar pentru oricine gandeste este bizara contradictie. El pretinde ca e l nu are un raspuns, ca nu stie, insa e foarte sigur ca ceilalti sunt ridicoli in credinta lor. Ok atunci ce incerci sa demonstrezi…daca pretinzi ca nu stii raspunsul ca nu ai argumente nu e contradictie in termeni sa lovesti in ce pretinzi ca nu stii? De ce esti asa de sigur ca ceilalti gresesc daca tu insuti nu ai raspunsul?

2. La un moment dat performerul Jesus il intreaba: Ok Bill, sa presupunem ca tot ce spui tu e adevar. Dar daca te inseli? la care Bill ii raspunde..”Dar daca te inseli tu?”. Apoi il arata pe interlocutor nedumerit. Am o banuiala ca e un cadru taiat ceea ce e o nedreptate etica pentru ca actorul Jesus se referea la pariul lui Pascal: “Daca eu pretind ca Dumnezeu exista si e cel revelat in Biblia si la urma ma insel, nu am pierdut nimic, ba dimpotriva am trait o viata frumoasa si demna, insa daca tu il negi, il contesti sau ii ridiculizezi revelatia si la urma afli ca te inseli..te vei confrunta cu Judecata de Apoi”. Bill sterge replicile care nu-i convin si le inlocuieste cu mutre, cu figura prostita a interlocutorului.

3. Apoi la un moment dat Bill pretinde ca nu exista argumente ale istoricitatii lui Iisus. Numerosi scriitori greco-romani majoritatea pasivi sau anticrestini si evrei (dusmani ai crestinismului) nu doar ca il amintesc in scrierile lor, ci dau detalii in conformitate cu Evangheliile: Tacit, Suetonius (acestia doi sunt cei mai credibili istorici ai antichitatii), Pliniu cel Tanar, Flavius Josephus, Thallus, Lucian, Celsus…

4. Maher e scandalizat de faptul ca ceilalti 3 evanghelisti in afara de Luca nu amintesc de nasterea din fecioara a lui Iisus. Din cate imi dau eu seama evangheliile nu sunt discursuri papagalicesti, ci diferite unghiuri de vedere asupra Mantuitorului:  Matei il priveste ca un Imparat, Mesia si implinitor al vechilor profetii (aminteste de magii din rasarit ce ii aduc daruri ca pentru rege, aduce multe citate cu profetii din Scripturi), Marcu il prezinta ca un performer de miracole, stapan asupra naturii si neputintei umane, Luca il prezinta ca omul perfect (Iisus a fost si om, de aceea insista asupra nasterii lui, relateaza multe detalii despre trasaturile omenesti ale Mantuitorului), iar Ioan ca pe Fiul lui Dumnezeu in care sa credeti. Pai nu vad de ce as citi de patru ori despre relatarea nasterii Domnului. E adevarat sunt 4 relatari ale crucificarii si invierii insa acestea reprezinta esenta planului de mantuire.

5. Un cliseu tipic al agnosticilor, pe care l-am intalnit si in Zeitgeist si m-as fi mirat sa ii fi scapat lui Bill Maher e pretentia ca si alti intemeietori de religii s-au nascut din fecioara, au facut minuni, vindecari, au dat invataturi similare cu ale lui Iiasus au fost ucisi si au inviat. De exemplu Horus, Tammuz, Bachus. Nimic de zis, cazi socat in fata unor asemenea ‘dovezi’. Brian de Kretser a facut o lista cu 40 de similitudini intre Iisus si Horus (1). Apoi, a facut o alta lista cu 40 de asemanari intre Horus si Hitler. Aici e smecheria, de  Hitler (la fel ca Isus) a fost botezat ca si Horus, s-a nascut intr-o casa care era si brutarie (Horus s-a nascut in Annu, locul painii, Isus in Betleem, Beit-Lehem, casa painii) la 12 ani a intrat la liceu,  la 30 de ani a intrat in partidul Nazi, a avut 12 acoliti, a facut parte din triada Hitler, Goebbels, Himmler. A fost numit razbunatorul (prin tratatul de la Versailles), in repetate randuri a promis pacea, a fost un ‘pastor cel bun’ al poporului german. Hitler s-a sinucis in bunker, Isus si-a dat viata… Cu putina nerusinare as gasi 40 de asemanari si intre mine si Horus. Sau culmea obrazniciei, intre mine si Isus. La 30 de ani am inceput sa scriu acest blog, asa cum Iisus la 30 de ani a inceput lucrarea. Hai Bill, ca ne faci sa radem. Am un alt argument pentru a explica similitudinile. Daca lumea asta e proiectia unui conflict intre bine si rau, intre Dumnezeu si Satana, de ce nu ar avea interes acesta din urma sa falsifice si sa maimutareasca existenta si suferintele lui Iisus. Zeii sunt considerati de Biblie demoni. “Satana e maimuta lui Dumnezeu”, Martin Luther.

Autor: Ovidiu Farcas, Vatra Dornei

Referinte

Similitudini intre Iisus si Horus, intre Horus si Hitler

(1) http://www.adam.com.au/bstett/BJesusandHorus74.htm

The theologians at The View weighed in on this question last March…

I’d like to ask my Christian readers especially—do you believe in Satan?  And if so, what do you think Satan is like exactly?  And why do you think what you think?

Your Thoughts?

ΤΑΙΝΙΑ RELIGULOUS & ΑΝΟΗΣΙΕΣ ΑΘΕΙΣΜΟΥ ,(πως μια κωμωδία μπορεί να γίνει τραγωδία), (Κατά Bill Maher & Larry Charles )! Διαβάστε όλα τα άρθρα και περιηγηθείτε στην ιστοσελίδα του Ανώνυμου Απολογητή.

From Larry Charles the Director of «Borat». Billa Maher, Religulous. Heaven Help Us, coming soon. [Είναι απίστευτο να το λέει κανείς... κι όμως το χειρότερο που πράττει η ταινία Religulous είναι να εκτελεί έναν συγκρητισμό Χριστού και άλλων θεοτήτων βασισμένο πάνω σε απίστευτα ψέματα, μιας άλλης ταινίας, της Zeitgeist, η οποία με την σειρά της στήριξε τα δικά της ψέματα πάνω σε ένα βιβλίο μιας ψευδολόγου (επιστημονική ειδικότητα αντίχριστων)].

ΦΙΛΟΞΕΝΙΑ [Νέα Σελίδα]

α. Ξενοδοχεία

http://www.apologitis.com/gr/ancient/filoksenia.htm#ΞΕΝΟΔΟΧΕΙΑ

β. Φιλοξενία

http://www.apologitis.com/gr/ancient/filoksenia.htm#ΦΙΛΟΞΕΝΙΑ

γ. Ξενώνες (Τα βυζαντινά Νοσοκομεία)

http://www.apologitis.com/gr/ancient/filoksenia.htm#ΞΕΝΩΝΕΣ

δ. Η Ηθική του Λωτ και της Βίβλου (Σόδομα & Γόμορρα) [Απάτη Bill Maher & Larry Charles]

http://www.apologitis.com/gr/ancient/atheistulous/filoksenia.htm#ΗΘΙΚΗ_ΛΩΤ

ΣΥΓΚΡΗΤΙΣΜΟΣ

α. Συγκρητισμός περί Χριστού. Μια αφέλεια για τρελούς

http://www.apologitis.com/gr/ancient/odysseia.htm#ΣΥΓΚΡΗΤΙΣΜΟΣ_ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ_ΤΡΕΛΟΙ

β. Θεοί Κρίσνα & Μίθρας έναντι Χριστού [Απάτη Bill Maher & Larry Charles]

http://www.apologitis.com/gr/ancient/odysseia.htm#ΚΡΙΣΝΑ_ΜΙΘΡΑΣ_ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ

γ. Πολλοί θεοί γεννήθηκαν στις 25/12 «άρα» ο Χριστός είναι ψέμα [Απάτη Bill Maher & Larry Charles]

http://www.apologitis.com/gr/ancient/odysseia.htm#25_ΔΕΚΕΜΒΡΙΟΥ

ΚΑΤΑ RELIGULOUS, Bill Maher & Larry Charles [Νέα Σελίδα]

α. Διδάσκω το Ευαγγέλιο του «δε γνωρίζω» [Απάτη Bill Maher & Larry Charles]

http://www.apologitis.com/gr/ancient/atheistulous/rediculous.htm#ΕΥΑΓΓΕΛΙΟ_ΤΟΥ_ΕΞΑΠΑΤΩ

β. Η μονοθεΐα είναι ανήθικη & ο Θεός ζηλιάρης [Απάτη Bill Maher & Larry Charles]

http://www.apologitis.com/gr/ancient/atheistulous/rediculous.htm#ΠΟΛΥΘΕΙΑ_ΖΗΛΙΑΡΗΣ

γ. Η Αιγυπτιακή Βίβλος των Νεκρών ο θεός Ώρος κι ο Χριστός [Απάτη Bill Maher & Larry Charles]

http://www.apologitis.com/gr/ancient/atheistulous/rediculous.htm#ΒΙΒΛΟΣ_ΝΕΚΡΩΝ_ΩΡΟΣ_ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ

δ. Γιατί οι 10 εντολές είναι οι σοφότερες εντολές; [Απάτη Bill Maher & Larry Charles]

http://www.apologitis.com/gr/ancient/atheistulous/rediculous.htm#ΑΓΑΠΗ_ΣΟΦΟΤΕΡΗ_10

ε. Βρέθηκε το γονίδιο της ομοφυλοφιλίας [Απάτη Bill Maher & Larry Charles]

http://www.apologitis.com/gr/ancient/atheistulous/rediculous.htm#ΓΟΝΙΔΙΟ_ΟΜΟΦΥΛΟΦΙΛΙΑΣ

στ. Ο προφήτης Ιωνάς δεν έζησε 3 μέρες μέσα σε ένα κήτος [Απάτη Bill Maher & Larry Charles]

http://www.apologitis.com/gr/ancient/atheistulous/rediculous.htm#ΠΡΟΦΗΤΗΣ_ΙΩΝΑΣ_ΚΗΤΟΣ

ΕΥΑΓΓΕΛΙΑ

α. Κανένα Ευαγγέλιο δεν μας λέει τι έκανε ο Ιησούς εις την εφηβεία [Απάτη Bill Maher & Larry Charles]

http://www.apologitis.com/gr/ancient/atheistulous/eyaggelia.htm#ΙΗΣΟΥΣ_ΕΦΗΒΕΙΑ

β. Κατασκευασμένα Ευαγγέλια & ψεύτες οι Απόστολοι [Απάτη Bill Maher & Larry Charles]

http://www.apologitis.com/gr/ancient/atheistulous/eyaggelia.htm#ΕΥΑΓΓΕΛΙΑ_vs_ΠΑΡΑΛΗΡΗΜΑ_RELIGULOUS

γ. Δεν μαρτυρούν όλα τα Ευαγγέλια την παρθενογένεση του Χριστού [Απάτη Bill Maher & Larry Charles]

http://www.apologitis.com/gr/ancient/atheistulous/eyaggelia.htm#ΕΥΑΓΓΕΛΙΑ_vs_ΠΑΡΑΛΗΡΗΜΑ_RELIGULOUS_II

Μπορείτε να δείτε όλες τις απάτες του νεοπαγανιστικού και αθεϊστικού κινήματος ( αδελφά ρεύματα της Νεοταξικής Νέας Εποχής ) στις παρακάτω ιστοσελίδες. Εκεί θα δείτε ότι πολλά κοινά υπάρχουν και με εισαγόμενες αμερικανόφερτες αιρέσεις και παραθρησκείες. Όλες αυτές οι κινήσεις και παραθρησκείες ελέγχουν ( υπογείως και με διάφορα μέσα ) ορισμένα ΜΜΕ , ορισμένους δημοσιογράφους ,πολιτικούς,  ιστοσελίδες και μπλογκ. Μπορείτε να τους καταλάβετε από τα συνεχή αντιεκκλησιαστικά και στοχεύμενα δημοσιεύματα κατά της Ορθόδοξης Εκκλησίας, του Αγίου Όρους και της χριστιανικής διδασκαλίας.

Μην ανησυχείτε, όμως. Ο Κύριος μας, ο μοναδικός αληθινός Τριαδικός Θεός, εξήλθε νικών και ίνα νικήση. Ούτε την Εκκλησία μπορούν να νικήσουν και να εξαφανίσουν ( Ματθ, 16:18 ). Ζει Κύριος ο Θεός ο Παντοκράτωρ.

www.apologitis.com

http://www.oodegr.com/neopaganismos/neo.htm

http://www.egolpio.com/SUBS/PAGANISMOS_sub.htm

http://www.egolpio.com/SUBS/NEW_AGE_sub.htm

http://www.oodegr.com/oode/a8eismos/a8eismos.htm

Teresa Forcades is a nun at the monastery of Sant-Benet, in Monserra-Barcelona. She is a doctor physician specializing in internal medicine, PHD in public health at Barcelona’s university, specializing in the USA at the State University of New York. She gives verifiable scientific data and the disturbing irregularities related to this subject. This is relevant to all countries, all people.

Your Thoughts?

PZ Myers relays an urgent plea to NASA from a courageous prophet.

Your Thoughts?

via The Good Atheist.

Your Thoughts?

Richard Dawkins reads some hate mail from religious detractors:

And ZJ also gives her critics a fair hearing:

Your Thoughts?